She did a lot of that kind of persuasion?
She was a phenomenal recruiter. I tell you, I don’t know of many people in her position who are so good at not only identifying people that would be terrific in public life but then doing everything humanly possible to persuade them to do it. And I would say a large number of the people who eventually became cabinet ministers in the one NDP government of Nova Scotia, were there because she had brought them into politics. And she did the same thing federally when they got elected with – what was it? – six members of Nova Scotia in that 97 election.
Wendy Lou.
Wendy Lou. You can go down the list of all these NDP candidates, and she was unstoppable when it came to recruiting people who would not just get elected– I mean, it’s one thing to get yourself elected, but then to be credible and to be effective as a member, and to have a kind of core set of values that fit with the NDP. I mean, I think she’s outstanding. And she pulled it off both federally– provincially first and then federally. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, when you look at the success of both the NDP and Nova Scotia, and then the NDP federally, a lot of that– even though they were–
Absolutely.
She didn’t get the benefits of it, but–
No. No. It’s true not. But I think again, this is a story I wanted to share with you when it came to Jack winning the leadership, it was really only because of the consistency that Alexa supported Jack in the central tries. I think it was the third time out that he finally got elected because he ran against me in Ottawa Center– sorry, in Toronto Center in 93. We ran together. In 97, when I ran for NDP, there were four of us who became a team. And they were Jack Layton, Olivia Chow, and Mel Watkins. And we made no secret of the fact that we were a team. We would hold joint press conferences. We would support each other, and we created enough buzz in the downtown Toronto park because all these rallies were kind of went together.
Hi.
Hi.
David, I’m going to sit out on the porch.
Okay. And–
Sorry to interrupt.
That’s okay. You know where you’re going?
I’m going to Megs. But no, I don’t know the address.
It’s–
If the Uber has been called, they have the address.
They call for their–?
Yeah.
Meg called the–? So they would know the address.
Yeah.
It’s Pape Avenue. I think it’s–
What will it look like?
It’s kind of new– they put a new kind of entranceway, a pathway and a–
Okay. Well, I can just write to Meg.
–front porch. Yeah. Yeah.
I have written her a message. Thank you.
Okay. Have fun. She’s going over to look after–
I will.
–Deborah’s first grandson, yeah, who’s– that’s him on the cover of that. Deborah has two interesting kids. Her oldest daughter was 35 today, has been the chief communications officer for Facebook, Canada.
Interesting job these days.
She’s so glad to be out of there for a year because it’s getting really tough. In fact, she wound up her time there last October. And I knew she was working hard, and I said, “Who succeeded you?” And she said, “There are three people who’ve take on?” All good. Facebook has about 100 people in an office in downtown Toronto. It’s interesting. I think as they’re presently costume, the days are numbered. I cannot see this because I don’t think Zuckerberg or Sheryl are up to it.
No. Well, they didn’t select–?
No. Well, I know there is a debate of whether– or actually wanted to rule the world as a 20-year-old at the university. But anyway. So, yeah.
So yeah. She was definitely a great recruiter of people.
And she would ask me, “Do you think someone would be a good candidate?” I said, “Well, you never know.” And she would stay in touch with them, and she would encourage them. And I mean, it wasn’t just that she persuaded them to finally take the plunge. She was there 24/7 to support them. And occasionally somebody would not pan out. But I would say a high percentage of the people that she persuaded and got involved were very credible and effective in their roles, first at opposition and then later in government. But what interests me is that I assumed I think– and one of the reasons why she was going to be at that level of activity regardless of where she was or– but I think that really changed for her maybe partially because we had ended our relationship, but that can also change because she herself changed. Part of it was not her doing. She had a lot of health things that came, particularly the heart business and breast cancer, and then the hearing loss. I think the hearing loss in some ways was the most hurtful to her because she loved to be out with people. And at one point, I don’t know how– this was after we split. I mean, it would be within the last seven or eight years. She lost I think 50% of her hearing. And she would tell me that she really did not enjoy now than being with groups of people. And for her to say that, to me, was unbelievable. And then the other thing I think she got really into wanting to spend a lot of quality time with her two grandchildren. We both have the same number of grandchildren. She has seven. I have seven. Hers are a little bit older because they were having kids a little ahead of my kids, but not much. Yeah. yeah.
Thank you so much. This has been–
Well, I hope it’s helpful.
Really helpful. I mean, once I’m back and sort of make notes at all those, I may have some other questions. I hope that’ll be okay.
Yeah. Yeah. No, No, please. If there’s any kind of follow up you would like– I had a lot of material at one point in time, but I’ve tried to religiously turn over as much as possible to the national archives because I don’t want it cluttering here. I want to be kind of organized so that when I’m no longer able to function, there’ll be a reasonable record for people to look at if they need to look at it. So yeah. The other thing I was going to say in terms of people who would really, from a personal point of view, have a big understanding. She has a group of women friends in the Halifax area, mostly Halifax area, and then some old high school friends in [inaudible] markets. And I think that in some ways, the ending of the relationship was more painful for Alexa than it was for me. I think we got to a certain point where I felt the relationship not just had stalled but perhaps was starting to move backwards, whereas, I think for her needs at that point in time, that was– I remember my mother who was a very insightful person, when in a very quick fashion, suddenly Alexa was no longer in the picture. And then quite soon afterwards, Deborah, whom she has met, was in the picture. And my mother said to me a couple times, “Alexa made a bad decision. She shouldn’t have–” Not that I talked a lot about it with my mother because I didn’t think that was appropriate. But she sensed that the good parts of the relationship that Alexa and I had were really important. But the fact that the relationship wasn’t continuing to kind of evolve into something more long term or permanent– I think my mother was a big fan of Alexa’s and impressed with everything she was doing, yeah, which I think many people who knew her closer were instrumental.
Yeah. And I am in touch with that group of high school friends going back to when they did the [inaudible] summer program. And I’m also in touch with Pam Palmater and that group who have been very supportive at this point as she moves into Parkland.
Has she finally moved?
She was supposed to move this week. I’m not sure that it’s actually happened. I think there may be some transition problems more to do with the person who was in Parkland, the family, or whatever. I don’t know the details. But she’s been there a number of– the women have taken her there a number of times.
Barbara Jack has been a key person.
Yeah. Yeah. Barbara Jack and some of the others, and they’ve met people. She knows a lot of people who are in there.
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Oh yeah.
This time of your life, going back to people that you knew.
Yeah. I know. I can’t quite decide how permanent or long term her– her dad died of Alzheimer’s.
Yeah, and her grandfather.
I didn’t know that part. But I spend a lot of time in the early period.